Season Two of Wellness in the Wilderness is here and we’ve got an epic mini-season in store for you!

In May, we celebrated five years since we started Hiking My Feelings, and as we were outlining the different guests we wanted to have on upcoming episodes of Wellness in the Wilderness, I noticed a pattern. There are so many incredible humans who have been a big part of our journey - whether that’s helping us get the word out and affirming the work we do, making life-changing introductions, inspiring new adventures and campaigns, or helping us bring our programs to life. Now, we’re excited to share the first of five conversations with five women who have been a huge influence on the first five years of this movement - we hope you love these conversations as much as we do!

Big thanks to the team at Sawyer for seeing the vision and supporting the show, we couldn’t do this without you!

This week we are thrilled to have Katie Wightman, former Field Institute Director for the Sequoia Parks Conservancy, joining us for a conversation about having the courage to revisit a dream from an earlier chapter in life, managing fear around trying something new, and finding wellness in the wilderness!

ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Katie Wightman worked for the Sequoia Parks Conservancy in Sequoia + Kings Canyon National Parks for 11 years and loved every minute. She had the privilege to work underground in Crystal Cave, organize the Dark Sky Festival, organize Science and Nature Camps for youth in the Central Valley, the backcountry Pear Lake Winter Ski Hut, and also Directed the Education Program for the SPC where she worked to provide as many opportunities as possible for people to connect with their public lands. Currently she is working on her Bachelor's of science in Nursing and is hoping to work in Emergency and Critical Care as well as continue in Wilderness Medicine. In her downtime she loves ultra running, amateur astronomy, and playing with her loving pup Sierra dog!

IN THIS EPISODE:

Katie and I sit down to chat from the historic Wolverton Service Camp in Sequoia National Park, home of the Volunteers in Parks Project in Sequoia-Kings Canyon National Parks
We are greeted by a yellow rumped warbler and a golden crowned kinglet - get pumped, birders!
Katie shares about the relationships between the National Park Service and their official nonprofit partners. In the case of Sequoia-Kings Canyon National Parks, their official partner is the Sequoia Parks Conservancy.
We talk about her transition out of Director of the Field Institute at Sequoia-Kings Canyon National Parks and returning to a dream from an earlier chapter in life - nursing.
How Katie finds wellness in the wilderness - and how trail running was a “very Katie solution” to getting far out in the backcountry in a limited amount of time.
You’re never too old to change your mind, and just because you fail at something doesn’t mean you’re a failure.

LISTEN HERE:

SHOW SPONSORED BY:

SHOW TRANSCRIPT:

Please note, we use Otter.ai to transcribe episodes and while the technology is impressive, it’s not completely accurate. Please excuse any missed words, nonsensical sentences, and missed interpretations of foreign language below:

Announcer 00:04

Welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. Come with us on the trail of life as we inspire you to take a step outdoors to disconnect from the distractions and reconnect with yourself. Sydney Williams and her guests will motivate you to get active and get well. Now, here's Sydney.

Sydney Williams 00:24

Welcome to Wellness in the Wilderness. I'm your host Sydney Williams, author and founder of Hiking My Feelings and today we are recording in Sequoia National Park, the ancestral lands of the Western Mono, Tubatulabal, Yokuts, Paiute and Western Shoshone people. In this mini season sponsored by Sawyer Products, we're celebrating five years of Hiking My Feelings by sharing conversations with five women who have been incredibly inspirational or and or instrumental in this journey so far. Today I'm joined by Katie Wightman, former director of the field Institute for the Sequoia Parks Conservancy, the intro that changed my life as far as our programming here at Hiking My Feelings, and we're also joined by the yellow rumped warbler and the golden crowned kinglet. So you might hear some bird noise in the background. Today we're recording at the historic Wolverton service camp, which has served communities since time immemorial. This used to be a pass through place in summer camp for the indigenous tribes that used to come through the Sierras to escape the heat down in the foothills. It's also the former home of the Boy Scouts of America, and a bunch of other groups an artists colony back in the day. And now we are and by we I mean me and Barry, we are camp hosting here and working with the volunteers in parks project here at Sequoia National Park. And this is where all the volunteers come that are coming to do service projects within the park, including ecologists, researchers, biologists, anybody and everybody that's trying to make this park a better place and protect it and preserve it for generations to come stays here if they need a pot spot to stay overnight. So Katie, hi.

Katie Wightman 01:53

Hi. Thanks so much for having me.

Sydney Williams 01:56

Thanks for being here. If you could start us off, just tell us a little bit about yourself. I mean, I gave your former title, but what are you up to? And how did you get here?

Katie Wightman 02:06

Absolutely. Yeah, so um, so as a former field institute director for the Sequoia Parks Conservancy, but I've been working in Sequoia and Kings Canyon since Gosh, since 2012. But I have been actually a part of this place since I guess forever. I grew up just right in the foothills of Sequoia and Kings, so Sequoia and Kings is definitely in my backyard growing up. And I always felt just really drawn to these mountains, these mountains are special. And so grew up kind of galavanting in the Sierra Nevada, and eventually led me to working in the parks for SPC. And I started out just as a seasonal, seasonal worker working at Crystal Cave as a naturalist and eventually became the crystal cave manager and manage that site for gosh, six, seven years for a while and then eventually wrapped up my time with SPC as a field institute director where I was able to help direct and kind of steer the educational branch of the Sequoia Parks Conservancy working really closely with the National Park Service, to really just connect people, both intellectually and emotionally to the park. So that was kind of our our goal and our vision and doing that together. And doing that in a way where people could just see themselves and find themselves in this in this place.

Sydney Williams 03:27

Hmm, yes, this place has so much history and he has healed so many people that history of mental health in this park is incredible. And I want to touch on that in a bit. But to kind of ground us in this place and what the Sequoia Parks Conservancy does, can you talk to us a little bit about the role of the nonprofit partners of the national parks themselves and how Sequoia works with NPS to bring that to life?

Katie Wightman 03:56

Absolutely. So not a lot of people realize that a lot of national parks have a nonprofit partner that helps them to essentially manage, manage that area of land and manage that National Park and the nonprofit's come alongside to support the national parks in any way that they can. Whether that be from an educational standpoint and philanthropic standpoint, helping in the visitor centers on a retail standpoint. I always tell people sometimes people don't realize that when they go to a national park, they take away a memory with them from buying something in the bookstore. Whether it's a magnet patch, a book, a postcard, whatever it might be, it's it's a it's a it's something that helps them to connect back to the experience and how they felt when they were in the National Park and the nonprofits helped make that happen by supplying all those supplies and helping to facilitate that experience or helping facilitate an educational experience or film philanthropic experience in the parks. And with the Sequoia Parks Conservancy, the Sequoia Parks Conservancy here in Sequoia and Kings Canyon does exactly that. We help manage the retail operations in the parks we help manage the field Institute which is the educational branch of the Sequoia Parks Conservancy and we also help the parks philanthropically to raise money for special projects and programs to to help manage the resource or help bring people and connect people to the parks, it always comes back to supporting these parks supporting Sequoia and Kings Canyon and in in, in whatever ways possible and the nonprofit's come alongside and work with the national parks to do that.

Sydney Williams 05:30

Awesome. So for anybody listening, if you're headed to a national park, be sure to look up those conservancies those. They all kind of go by different names, but like Joshua Tree is the Joshua Tree National Park Association. Here we have the Sequoia Parks Conservancy. Glacier has a conservancy as well. So be sure to take a look and see if you can find those folks support them say hi, because without the work of these important nonprofit partners, these parks wouldn't be what they are. The federal government only provides so much funding and these parks are critical for the continuation of the parks and their preservation. So first of all, thank you. Now for everybody listening, the connection here between Hiking My Feelings and the Sequoia Parks Conservancy specifically Katie Wightman. Why did I pick Katie, like of the five folks that we have on this mini season, Katie has been absolutely instrumental in helping me bring my ultimate vision to life for Hiking My Feelings. When I completed my second trek across Catalina the first thing that I did was reached out to the trans-catalina island that's Oh, my God, but Catalina Island Conservancy, I was like, Hey, how do I help. And that kind of set up this curiosity for me where I had had this really deep healing experience. And my first outreach was to the people that protect and manage the land, I wanted to help expand the reach of the things that they were doing, I wanted to recreate what I had experienced. Because if we can't, if it were, if it was true for me, if I could go and go on a hike and then feel like deeply connected to a place, then I am pretty sure that that's a repeatable process. So my ultimate vision for what we've wanted to do for Hiking My Feelings as far as your treats go, is exactly what we're doing in Sequoia Kings right now, which is what we're calling stewardship and self care. So the relationship between Hiking My Feelings, Sequoia Parks Conservancy, and also through the National Park Service, through the Volunteers in Parks program, specifically here at Sequoia Kings, is how this all comes to life. So our events, we do what we've been doing for the last four or five years, where we're talking about mental health and the outdoors and learning how to connect but also, the part that I really wanted to implement that I just hadn't had the opportunity to do yet was to include a stewardship project. And through I don't, how do we even get connected? Like I know I watched a giant conversations about fire. Did I reach out to you after that?

Katie Wightman 06:13

Um, I'm trying to remember I was thinking about that if like, how did we get connected? I think it was through Tamara who had attended a Hiking My Feelings and she felt so compelled and she's like, we need to bring this to Sequoia and I, after hearing just her her experience and introducing us and I was like yeah, you're right. We do like yeah, trying to make this happen.

Sydney Williams 08:18

That's right. Oh, yeah. Cuz I had been like, and we've been doing this stuff at Joshua Tree. You're like, I know Kevin Wong. Shout out to Kevin Wong. Love your face.

Katie Wightman 08:28

Kevin Wong was like hey you need to catch a Sydney. I was like, I absolutely do. You're the second person.

Sydney Williams 08:34

Oh, so thank you, Tamara, and Kevin Wong. Appreciate the intros. But that was one of the things like this, like my curiosity in what had happened over the two previous fires was between the castle fire and KNP Complex Fire and the conversations around how many sequoias were lost. Really, like just lit a fire under me because I had come my story of connection to Sequoia started in 2019. We came through here just breezing through on our tour. We didn't stay overnight, we didn't even hike, we just came to see General Sherman. And we walked down and we're standing outside the fence by the big fallen branch. And there was this group of guys and one dude jumped the fence and went to go hug General Sherman and it was one of those moments for me. And I don't know if Katie if you can relate where the thought in my head came out of my mouth full volume. And so what I thought was in my head came out as "Are you for real?" like at full volume. And that ladies and gentlemen is where Sydney engaged her feral forest protector mode. And I've never been the same since so that like moment where I was like, wait a minute, there is a fence around this tree for a reason. And I didn't know the reasons yet. I just knew like, I am a rule follower and you don't jump fences. I was like I want to learn as much as I can about this place. And so it was through the programs provided by Sequoia Parks Conservancy through this giant conversations series you do that I learned about the impacts of the fire. And as I was sitting through this webinar that Katie was facilitating with some of the folks that work here, I was just like, oh my god, like I do prescribed burns, for like, that is what mindfulness is. mindfulness and hiking, for me is a prescribed burn. So all the things that are building up all of my dead stuff on the forest floor doesn't go up in flames, like this is how I manage my mental health. We've got to create a program around this. And so when we talk to you, I was like, Okay, so in Joshua Tree, they have this campground, and it's only for NPS and desert Institute programs, do you have anything similar, and that's how we found out about Wolverton. So for folks that are interested in doing volunteer projects, you can look at volunteer.gov, you can reach out to the folks here at Sequoia Kings specifically. But this was like the puzzle piece that just kind of brought this all together. And now we're here recording here. I know, oh, my god, it's so wild. So shifting away a little bit from your former role. You were here. You're the reason we got here. You're the reason we're here. Now. Talk to us about your transition out of working with the conservancy. And what's coming up for you next, like where are you going next? How do you want to use those skills? in new ways?

Katie Wightman 11:10

Right, yeah, especially like to see your question. So yeah, I've transitioned away from the conservancy. I loved my work in, in public lands, and in the national parks, in many ways, it made me who I am in a lot of ways, and I needed, I describe it as, like, I needed the time in the mountains, like I just, I needed it. And I, when I was young and first started in school, I started pursuing a career in nursing. And honestly, I was just too young and not ready. And I kind of deviated from that path and found myself working in the parks. And I was here for gosh, 11 years and found this, this connection to, to the space and to wilderness, and I loved, there's something and Sydney you've probably experienced this multiple times, when you when you lead a group and you facilitate an experience, where you're connecting people to a cave for a first time, to a giant sequoia for first time to the stars, for the first time, or in a new way where people are actually seeing it or they take time away from their lives. And they they connect back to these natural places back to their, to their, to the national parks, and they, they have this emotional connection and to be a small part of that and facilitating that experience was I thought it was it was one of the greatest honors that I could think of, to be a part of it into some small way. And but there's always this thing in the back of my head of this love for and the passion for nursing, and really meeting people in this other really raw, vulnerable way. And it really just one day I was hiking, you know, and through the pandemic and through trying to figure out like, I can start to feel a shift and a change in me of knowing that. Like, there's this other kind of like calling on my life and trying to get back to that place. And so I made the incredibly difficult decision to, to start to pursue that again. And so. And it was probably, gosh hard the hardest and easiest decision I made, like knowing it was exactly the right thing to do. But the transition has been hard. I'm still working for the conservancy part time, you know, like helping out when I can because, you know, once you spend so much time in a place and give so much self to your organization. You never, you never, your heart never separates from it. And so, um, so yeah, so just pursuing now a career in nursing. And I'm just taking my prereqs and going through that and applying for programs that the ultimate goal of applying to a program in Montana and hoping to get out there and another gravitational pull on my life getting getting out that way. And so yeah, that's what I'm what I'm doing right now.

Sydney Williams 11:10

Hmm, I heard a couple of things that I that I'm curious about. I think a lot of folks get stuck in I'm too old to do something. But you knew at the beginning that you weren't you just weren't ready for nursing. So talk to me a little bit like was there? Was it that simple, where you were just like, Yeah, I'm not ready, I'm gonna go do this instead, or was there? Was there any kind of reckoning to pause on your pursuit of nursing back in the day? And then to bring that back around? Like, what was that journey like were you was it just did, was there an instance? I mean, you'd said you discovered this kind of nudge when you were hiking, but was there something about the pandemic or something about the way your career was unfolding? That led you back to nursing

Katie Wightman 14:59

Yeah, that's a that's a really good question. Um, I think, you know, when I was first doing nursing, like I say, like, I was too young, not ready. But I also really struggled in nursing school, there was a lot of pressure, and having some, like, I have a struggle with test anxiety. And I was told basically, that I wasn't smart enough too, and I was foolish enough to believe that. And, you know, when you're like, 21-22, and you're told that you're like, oh, my gosh, maybe maybe you're right, and I'm gonna hurt someone. Maybe I shouldn't do this. And I was told I went to go, you know, and no fault of their own. I went into a professor for help. And they told me like, I should be an interior designer, which I, it was such a weird thing. I was like, No, I don't know anything about that. Like, I don't want to do that. So that's,

Sydney Williams 15:54

that's a random suggestion, like, not at all aligned with medicine, or health are helping people

Katie Wightman 16:00

and I was like, Oh my god. So, but it was just enough fear and doubt created in me that I was like, Wow, maybe I do need to, like think beyond that. Because I mean, Nursing is a huge responsibility. And maybe my professors are seeing something that I wasn't seen in myself. And so. So I deviated from that. But when I started working in the parks, I ended up getting my EMT and managing the crystal cave site, there was a need for that, and, and I remember how much I loved it, I loved being an EMT, I love providing that, that care, I loved providing in a wilderness setting. And to being able to connect with people at their, you know, an uncomfortable time, where, you know, you're not only are you hurt, but you're maybe inside a cave and you're hurt or you're on a trail and you're hurt, and you're out of your element. And you're like how do you know it's jarring and scary, and to be able to bring some peace and some calm to that. I just found a lot of um, a lot of peace and calming. You know, were some people might be terrified by the experience. I was like, No, I love this, which is a weird thing to love. I never want anybody to get hurt. But I love being able to support someone in that in that time. And, and it was just always something that was just deep within my heart, like always trying to come to the surface that I was too scared, I think to let it come to the surface. Totally. Because you get that you get into that mode where like, Oh, I'm too old. Like I'm already in this career path, like I can't change, like, what's gonna happen to my retirement? What's gonna happen to my health insurance? Like, what am I going to do? Like, how am I going to afford this, like, I'm going to be the oldest person at a community college like with a bunch of like, 18 year olds taking prerequisite courses, like, and I'm now I'm like that older adult learner that's like, taking anatomy and chemistry and an algebra class. And it's been, it's been humbling, for sure. And, and funny, and, but I think when you let go of some of that fear, and you allow yourself to just to be part of the journey, and also realized that there is no right or wrong way to do this thing. called life. And, and to just to trust in some of those, I guess to like to trust in fear, which is a weird thing to say maybe, but and to stress that, you know, I always tell people like, it's going to come together in this really beautiful way, everything is just gonna come together. And I don't even have the imagination for it. And, and I'm just riding that wave. And trusting in that as opposed to being paralyzed by the fear, I guess. So it's like this. It's this balance, I guess, between like, yes, the fear is there. It's not it's very, very real. The Dow is very, very real. But also, there's like, there's truth in that too. Like, I want it so bad. And so it's just going to come through.

Sydney Williams 18:58

I have love fear as an indicator of what we want. That's been a big lesson for me this year, like at the at the risk of either having to choose to transition to something that isn't what we're currently doing in order to survive. Whenever that comes down. On me, I'm like, it's the my gut is like, No, we absolutely will not give up on what we've been building. And I'm like, Oh, okay. All right, inner self, I hear you loud and clear. But I love that. And I'm curious. One of the things that you were doing last summer when we were here was you were training for like a big race or something and you like, first of all, I just want to say, so Katie, Katie's like, um, I have to go do this, like 50 mile run during the night through the giant forest and I was like, first of all, that sounds magical. And then like the first hike we did here was sunrise from Wolverton out to Moro and back and I was like we got here. We left here at three in the morning. And every single stump looks like a bear. It's just like and we're under the Starry Night Sky was like in this is like, what this is what Katie's life was like for a while. So I'd love to hear about how, how you also because you were working here, because this has been your backyard? Like what? What kind of wellness? Have you found in the wilderness? That is Sequoia Kings? And how has that impacted your journey through this career transition? And has it taught you anything about leaning into that fear? Because it sounds like it might have?

Katie Wightman 20:31

Yeah, um, oh, gosh, it's such a good question. All your questions are good. I think being able to work and live in a national park is such a rare and unique experience. Because it's, it's hard and it's wonderful at the same time, because you also have millions people from all over the world, like coming into you develop such a, an attachment to the place, and you want to share that with as many people but you also want to keep it really close. And you're constantly walking, walking that line. And, you know, where I found wellness in this place is just being out in it. And where I found probably the most comfort is and probably which ties into like, my little night running, you know, adventure is really coming and looking at the stars, like having that connection with dark skies. And also, you know, being able to leave, leave out my front door for my evening walk walking to the largest trees in the world by volume. And that like finding that in my recenter, like, okay, like, was hard day at work, lots of things happened, what am I going to do, okay, I'm just gonna walk, I'm just gonna walk up to like, the giant forest for a second, just for a minute and just kind of recenter I'm gonna walk to Tokopah Falls, or I'm going to just find a piece of granite and lay out there all night to so that way, I can just like watch the night sky move. And being able to have those, those quiet moments to work through, you know, work through either emotions of the days or fears of a lifetime. You know, so like, for me, that's what made the most sense, and finding, finding connection there. to lots of different things. And, and i i So you know, it's like, I when I when I was working with for SPC like man, I would give I give for the Sequoia Parks Conservancy, like, you, you give so much like time and energy. And the hard thing about working in National Park is sometimes you'll get two days off a week, and you have a mountain range to explore. And I was in this always faced with this conundrum of like, how am I going to get to this place in two days, and back in time to go to work. You know, you've just worked like maybe a 60 hour week or, or whatnot, you're like, I just really want to get to this lake, or I wanted to, like try to get this peak. And I found trail running, because I was like, Well, if I run there, I get there faster. And I can get back in time. And I can accomplish, which is a very Katie solution to a problem where I'll just run there, I can do that. And, and that's where I found running and trail running and where I'm like, Okay, if I want to experience this giant forest at night, maybe I just run throughout the night, which eventually led me to bigger goals and eventually completing 100 mile race. And with trail running to you and kind of some of those goals that kind of was I also need how to this need of knowing that I could do the hard thing. And the 100 100 mile race for me or a 30 mile or 50 mile, whatever it might be was knowing that I could, proving to myself that I could do hard things. And I think it was also that, you know, as I was looking at that big transition of like, okay, no, I can, I can do the hard thing. And I chose a very physical thing. Maybe because I needed that confidence to be like, Okay, if I can run 100 miles, maybe I can sit in anatomy class with, with an 18 year old who's probably way smarter than me. And essentially start over and go, a literal full circle. I started like the college that I'm attending now is where I first started as a community college when I was 18 or 19, graduating high school and I'm right back where I started like, full circle, which is humbling. And I and it's and it's hard, but but we can do hard things. We can do hard things, whether it's running 100 miles or switching careers or trusting in something that you were told that you couldn't do but knowing that you were made to do

Sydney Williams 24:53

snaps for that. Oh man, I like I love There's a chapter in my book called I. Well, you can do hard things. I can do hard things like that was a mantra of mine going up when I was like, in the worst shape of my life on my first backpacking trip with no training whatsoever. I was like, okay, I can do hard things like I'm sure this is this is hard. But I chose this hard. And I think that there's something to be said for that. Like, I don't know that everybody can relate. But I know a lot of our listeners can, that doing something intensely physical that is incredibly difficult, does lend that confidence like it started for me in skydiving, it's like, if I can jump out of a plane, why am I worried about a PowerPoint presentation for a client. And with backpacking and stuff, too, I was like it and it just completely changed. My life was like, I just like when I got done with the TCT in 2018, I was walked into our house was like, I just survived for five days in the wilderness with everything I need on my back, this house is too big, we have way too much. And the house wasn't too big, and we didn't have too much stuff. But I love hearing that every time I connect with somebody that's like, we can do hard things. And for me, I do a hard a deeply physical hard thing. And then I go and crush other areas of life. If you had to have a conversation with younger, Katie, Katie in the professor's office, who was like maybe you should do Interior Design? Is there anything that you would say to her now that might have swayed her choices? Or do you think that that was exactly what she needed at the right time? And now you're here and it's all coming together? As you said it, probably.

Katie Wightman 26:42

I've actually thought about this quite a bit of, you know, because when you when you feel like you went back to where you started, it's very rich. It's very, like you're very, very introspective. And you really question and I think you can get sucked into like, the what ifs? And did I waste time and all the all the negative things start to come out? And I look back at things and I'm like, would I have changed it? Like if I had the opportunity to have like, choose, like, if I could go back in time and, you know, go right there at that space again, and, you know, either stick with a nursing or go on to the journey that I was that I was put upon? Like, would I have changed anything? And I would say no. I don't think I would have I think that I needed the time. And there was, and that's hard to say because there was mistakes, and I would change definite moments, I would change. I would change some decisions and I would change. I think I would try to be better. But as far as like a life change, I don't think I think that I wouldn't change anything. I'm glad for the journey that I was and the people that I've met along the way. And we'll always look back like oh man, like you have a cringe moments are like. But, you know, in those moments, too, I think that those moments have also shaped me to be you know who I am today. And I don't know if I would have gotten back to this place. Had I not had those moments. And so I don't think I would actually yeah, looking back, I won't change anything, even the cringe moments. Yes. I would love to say like, oh, yeah, I would handle that differently. No, like I needed to I needed that moment to to get me to the next thing. And sometimes you do need to like apologize for those moments and those choices and those things that you said or did or whatnot or, and and also go through the fear of like being told that you couldn't do something to come back around and try to face that again. As maybe as long or as inefficient as that might feel. I don't think I would have I don't think I would change it.

Sydney Williams 28:57

I've been thinking about this for myself as well. And on every single one of these interviews I always end up talking about Catalina too much. But in the in the transition from oh my god, this is the picture perfect place for us like this makes so much sense in the story. If I was writing this the bow is we moved to Catalina and now we're based here, Sydney here and all of her author glory has returned to the land from which she was healed. But ultimately, like the the decision to leave and was such a unique decision on my trail of life like I hadn't, I hadn't ever in a career transition, gone back to something that I had built that there was nothing wrong with and that's not to say that Hiking My Feelings like stopped for the first five months of this year. But we also weren't executing programs. I felt outside of writing the book. I felt pretty disconnected from the work that I was doing in the pursuit of trying to build something new. But when I think back like the decision to come out here. And to pursue this, the continuation of what we started to hear last summer, I wouldn't have changed anything because like I don't, I've decided to live my life with as few what ifs as possible. Like, I don't really have any regrets. Because I'm always just trying it. And I gotta give younger me even just like six months ago me credit for giving it a shot. And I and I too, I wouldn't change anything about my path either. And I think that I think what I asked you that question, I was like, thinking that maybe there was something that you would change, but even in your articulation of the decision to pursue this career in the parks, like you knew you weren't ready, you said you knew you weren't ready? And like, yeah, there was the teacher. And there were some things that felt weird, but I think like, I remember seeing those older adults when I was in community college, and then when I went on to university, and I always, I never, I never judged them for being older. But now I have a deeper appreciation for those folks. And I'm deeply inspired by the people that aren't afraid to go after. And maybe it's something new, and some new education that they're seeking, maybe they're coming back around to a thing that they had earlier in their life that they're ready to pursue now. But that takes guts. Where do you find the gut? For anybody that's like, because I mean, this is a thing. Like, if we're thinking about, like, if we think about the things that your career has touched, directly or indirectly, we're talking about the mental health crisis in America, we're talking about the crisis of untapped potential. And like this, this notion that we have to do everything on like, there's, there's only one way to move through the world. And that and that couldn't be further from the truth. I'm curious, like, for anybody listening, that might be thinking, I'm too young to do this, in the case of your nursing, like, I'm not ready. How to trust that. Or for the folks that are like, I'm staunchly stuck in this career. Like, you could have said, well, you know, I'm 11 years into this public lands work. I guess that's it for me, like, what would you say to the people that are in one of those positions? Like how what what do you have to offer folks that might be questioning? What could come next for them?

Katie Wightman 32:18

Yeah. I think that it comes down. Like, there's like, definitely the courage and the bravery to recognize that I guess I have a couple different approaches to this like, is like one that that kid that, you know, that person that might be like, I'm not ready for this, to trust that. And, and then that that's okay. And just because you might fail at something like I failed, I failed at nursing in the first time I did. Did it make me a failure.

Sydney Williams 32:57

Hmm. I don't say that again, say it again. We need to hear that one more time.

Katie Wightman 33:06

Again, just because you fail at something does not make you a failure. We fail at stuff all the time. Like, whether that be, you know, gosh, trying to do that PowerPoint presentation, and maybe it's your first time presentation is gonna be like, you know, to, or that first big backpack or whatever it might be a class or you think that this is your, this is your thing, and you love it. And then all of a sudden you get there, you're like, This is not my thing, and I don't love it. That, you know, those those, you know, those like, fails, they be small or epic, don't make us failures. And that it's okay to deviate. And it's okay to change your mind. And that doesn't make you irresponsible, that doesn't make you lost. It doesn't make you you know, it doesn't make you lazy or confused or uncentered, or anything like that. It just means that you're, you know, like, for me, what I have found is that it just means that I'm still figuring figuring it out. Life is hard. And, um, and I think that sometimes we get we treat, I had this vision at one point of, of this, like treating life as a chessboard. And where you can sometimes feel like a chessboard and someone else's like a piece in someone else's chessboard or you're trying to arrange your chessboard in just the right way. And you're so focused on these little pieces and whether or not you can move this one piece here and it will do this one thing and it turns out to be this mess. And I've just like, okay, like letting that go. And I think sometimes we put an over importance on place or career, and we think, Oh, if we can just get to that place or if we can just get to that career, then everything will be okay. And I'm finding that that's not necessarily true and And it and it's really about like the people and and the hard moments and the good moments since we know people like, from an outsider's perspective, like what I'm doing right now does look crazy. And I loved my career in the national parks, I loved it, I, I loved going to work I loved, I loved the hard days, I loved the good days, I loved doing everything as simple as giving a program to organizing, working with you to organize Hiking My Feelings in the parks to trying to open up a site after a fire blew through or a flood or whatever it could have was like, and doing that problem solving of just those hard things. And I loved that I loved the work, and to find the courage to walk away from that, and walk away from the community, and the relationships that I built and the impact and the fear that like oh my gosh, if I remove myself, like what's that? What's it gonna do? I'm gonna leave a hole and not to toot my own horn, but, you know, like, like, you start to feel like responsible and that, that guilt, and it's, but then also you're like, okay, like, if I leave a hole, and that's like, what a great spot for someone else to come in and jump right into that and, you know, make it their own and, and it and it just, it came down to knowing that like I maybe I and I don't know, I'm not a nurse yet. Like, I'm very much so in the journey. And, like, my goal, yeah, is this thing, like, I know, like, that's what I am meant for like that deep. I call it the place that no one goes. And for me there's a very, like, spiritual connection that also plays into it. Where I know, for me, like, that's what God is, like, designed me to do. And and I ran away from it for a long time. And now I'm trying to crawl my way back to that place and, and still making, it's still making mistakes along the way. And I would say like for anybody that is going through that right now is just to I guess, have courage, and trust. I think sometimes we we forget how to trust ourselves. And because we get that fear can sometimes be so overpowering. And the fear isn't a bad thing. But it's not the whole story. The fear can lead us into some cool places. But I think just listen to that. Listen to that little voice. Because maybe has a power even though it's quiet, and it's scary, it might have a powerful thing, and you're never going to be too old. You never you're never like you're never too old.

Sydney Williams 38:03

Ever. ever, ever, I read this really great quote once. It's like, I wrote like my first book when I was 50. I married the love of my life when I was 70. I got my PhD when I was 75. And like next year, I'll be 80. And I'm so excited to see like, I don't think that was the direct quote. But right something along those lines of this thing of like, we think that there's a certain way to do it, but and that, and there is a form of that works for people. And that's not a bad format. Like there's not a right or wrong way to do it. You just got to find your own way. And like, wherever that leads. Yeah, I think there's a lot of ways to live a life and it sounds like something that Barry says a lot. And last year, or 2021 Going into 2022 he challenged me because I was like I need to have a path I must have my whole life scheduled out to the minute. This is how I operate best is when I have something to hold myself accountable to and for. He was like, hey, that's cool and everything. But like if you're so focused on this trail, you're building this trail, you're blazing the path in front of you, you might miss the zip line, that's often aside and sometimes zip lines are way more fun. And I was like Okay, so like blinders off, be open to zip lines a slides that I love, I love what you were saying about the the the trust in yourself. Because that's we're like, in this culture, especially as women, I feel like we have been extracted from our capacity to trust ourselves. And that's a skill that we have to learn like, I don't think at least for me, like I wasn't an if I was ever innately able to trust myself, I don't know at what point that stopped because I don't have memory of that ever existing until like in my 30s where I was like, I'm living my life on my terms. And I don't care what success looks like for other people. And it sounds like one of the things we talk about in our programs is like what kind of measuring stick are you using for your life and for success like We measure what we care about. And for me coming up in corporate, like my measurement of success was millions of products purchased 1000s, or hundreds of 1000s of likes and comments. And then when I started Hiking My Feelings, I was like, deeply frustrated that I wasn't getting those kinds of results. And then I remembered, oh, the corporations I used to work with have like multi million dollar marketing budgets. So of course, they're we're gonna see those kinds of results from the campaigns that we're running. And yes, it will take some time if we ever get to that kind of like tangible, measurable impact in that way with what we do now. But more importantly, what I've realized is like, there's so many different ways to live a life and there's so many different ways to measure success. That that self trust piece and the the part about failing and not make not does not make you a failure. Girl. I mean, if I could just like tattoo that on everybody's forehead, like because like imagine, imagine what would be possible if people weren't escaped weren't afraid of failing, because they had this deep internal knowing that they aren't a failure. Like, what? What else is possible on this planet? Like, if I think about the progress and innovation and everything in the last 100 200 years of existence in America, in particular, like, a lot of that has been exploiting resources, a lot of that has been driven by capitalism, which has served some great things like we have medications that save lives, and all kinds of stuff. But for all of the success that we've seen, and all of the progress that we've made as humanity, or as a country, I just can't help but think about how much untapped potential there is. Because people are so afraid to fail. And so I wonder, like was, did young Katie feel? Were there other areas in your life and other like forks in the trail that you're walking through this experience of being human, where you've had to reframe failure in that way? Because it sounds like this. Like you said, you failed at nursing at the beginning, I failed it chemistry. So I stopped pursuing pre med. I was like, oh, trauma informs how I study interesting. Let's ignore that. Suddenly, I'm stupid. It's fine. Like, just despite like a really long history of being pretty good at school, suddenly, I'm an idiot. No, it's not how it works. Is there? Is there anything on your life path that as you look back now, that felt like a failure that now feels like a stepping stone towards where you've been? And where you're going?

Katie Wightman 42:45

Yeah, let me think about that. And I think, you know, like, I think one of my biggest fears is fear itself. Sometimes someone, someone kind of highlighted that in me one at one point. And because that fear of failure, especially when you have trauma is so strong. Because when you have when you have trauma associated stuff, like you're always trying to fix something, right, you're always trying to like, to piece something together to to fix the situation, because you're like, Oh, if I just do this fix, like we can get through another day, or we can, we can get to this moment, or whatnot. So you're always problem solving, constantly problem solving all the time, problem solving all the time, to not let you're trying to hold up whatever it is from, you know, from failing, and you start to do that with yourself. And and I think that I've had I Gosh, I've had lots of failures. And I was thinking about this the other day of this phrase of, I'm going to unapologetically me. And I was thinking about how, how much I've been struggling with that phrase lately. Because I got, gosh, some of my strongest moments have been when I've had to apologize for who I am. Because I have hurt someone is trying to sort with your life trying to be this human. Not and not always getting it right. And having to apologize to be like I screwed up. And I'm sorry. And taking responsibility for that. Thank God, I've been unemployed. I have been apologetically nice sometimes. Because it's through those moments and we're trying our hardest. Gosh, we're just trying our hardest but you like sometimes you can leave a wake of pain and unintentionally, but and going back and, you know, sitting sitting with that person and having the, you know, like that's recurred starts like sometimes I think, is, you know, examining those failures that don't just affect your life, but the, the fails that affect others in in smaller big ways and and like thinking about, you know, you watch people move, I don't know, like you or for anybody listening like you know, you get those like people watching moments where you just like watch like life happened around you and like sometimes I'm just struck by like how kind like people are with one another. And there's this great Hebrew word that I've just recently like, been introduced to and like have done it's called Chesed. And there's like 160 Something translations of it. But it all comes down to like trying to understand this, like kindness and compassion. And and it's, it's like just trying to understand this, like this thing. And when you, but like when you see it, like people being like that there's just like this, like kindness that's around and people just like, when you see another human being that's struggling. Or maybe they you see someone else fail like you never like, it's so rare when someone doesn't meet you in that failure. Like when you go back and you apologize, and you're like, I screwed up. I don't think I've ever I've never, like, it doesn't mean that we're going to be best friends after that moment. But there's never not some kind of reconciliation, and like a meeting a meeting place there. And I think that and I think that's a lot of, you know, sometimes we associate that fear of failure with like, these big things like, Oh, I'm changing careers, like, during this big thing. But I think it really starts with like some of those small moments, and then, you know, and then it built like, and then having the courage to go apologize can lead to the courage to be like, maybe I'm just gonna go try to hike that mountain. And maybe I'm gonna go, you know, do these other things. And I'm kind of I'm getting now I'm like, off off topic, but I think I've walked through so many failures, and just having, I think the courage to, to admit the failure or the fail. And I think when we don't admit the fail, that's when we're in danger of becoming like allowing ourselves to feel like failures.

Sydney Williams 47:36

Yeah,

Katie Wightman 47:37

I think it's just turning around and facing that and taking responsibility for it. Which is super scary and super hard.

Sydney Williams 47:43

Yeah, well, and a phrase that comes to mind. So this year, I joined the team at Outdoorist Oath, which is an organization that is they have a namesake workshop called the Outdoor Oath so it's an educational platform similar to like, Leave No Trace, where they're committed to taking action for the planet, inclusion and adventure. And they also have this nonprofit work. That's what they do. I joined the team as a guest facilitator this year. And one of the phrases that I heard that really just kind of switched it up for me. Well, actually, there's a couple one, when we all showed up to learn how to train, and we did like our practice run through. We were all there. We're like, we're honoring our try. And I was like, God, doesn't that feel so lovely.

Katie Wightman 48:31

So good.

Sydney Williams 48:32

Like, and it's not necessarily a reframe on on fear. It's not necessarily a reframe on failure, but just a different perspective through which to honor our efforts. Yeah. And even if even if that try does cause harm, that approaching it from that angle feels like a much safer and collaborative and less, frankly, less violent way to go about it. And another thing that has just been kind of rambling in my mind, especially as we've been talking about your connection to the night sky. Here, in and out throughout this conversation. Jose Gonzalez, who's one of the co founders of the Outdoorist Oath said that we should be striving to create constellations and not stars. And when I think about failure and fear and and also being unapologetic and apologetic and this this idea of like, trying to find a place a career, the people that allow us to feel fully expressed and to allow us to let our light shine like we want to get to the point where we can feel like we can shine brightly like stars, but also to the point of like career transitions and loot and shifting communities not necessarily losing because I don't think you'll ever lose what you've built here. But finding those different stars through which you can create a constellation and that's the community that you're in. I just I I love everything you've said about failure. I love what we've talked about about doing hard things. And the question that I like to close with for everybody that I interview is imagine you have this magic wand. And with it, you can bestow knowledge on everybody on the planet. You could erase a behavior that is harmful. You could use it on yourself, you could get that nursing degree and know that you like it. Turns out, I love it. And I'm really good at it. If you had a magic wand, and you could do literally anything with it, what would you do with it? And who would benefit?

Katie Wightman 50:31

Oh my gosh,

Sydney Williams 50:33

yeah, you're welcome.

Katie Wightman 50:37

Sydney, that's such a great question. Do I want a magic wand? I don't think I want that responsibility That's a ton a responsibility Oh, my gosh, this is such a hard question. Um, I'm gonna take a coward's way out and do something really simple. And I get super soft, because I'm like, Oh my gosh, now I'm gonna overthink the question. But something that has brought a lot of peace, and joy and excitement to my wife is, is the night sky. And I'm gonna focus there. So if I had a magic wand, where I could create an experience for everyone it would be to remove the light pollution, not that lights are bad lights are great. Let's do a lot for us love lights. But just for like a minute, just reduce the light pollution. So like everybody has this chance to, like, connect with the night sky, there's so much power, and so much. It's just so beautiful. To be able to see a sky full of stars. And it's such a tangible and intangible moment at the same time. And where you can feel so small and so big and so full of potential all at the same time. And it's I think it's one of these just like rare experiences where because like, you know, night is scary, like you go outside at night. And you know, we're humans, we're not meant to be outside and it scary or intimidating. And, um, but then there's like this, you when you kind of face some of that fear, and you go and you lay on that rock or you go and lay in, you know, on the sidewalk or on your lawn or whatnot and take a minute to like, look up. And just to see these lights that are above you. Gosh, talk about change. Where you don't need to change a career or you don't need to do this big scary thing. But like this micro change where you just go and you spend a couple minutes just looking up at the stars. If I could give that opportunity to everybody, I think with a magic wand. I think I would, I would, I would enjoy that.

Sydney Williams 53:09

I'm glad that you said that. Because one of the facts that Rebecca shared Rebecca Jones is a she's the cave manager at Crystal Cave, which is currently closed here at Sequoia Kings, but also a naturalist and interpreter with or interpretive interpreter.

Katie Wightman 53:25

She's a naturalist, naturalist

Sydney Williams 53:27

interpretive naturalist, she, we collaborate with her at our programs here at the Wolverton service camp and for our stewardship and self care retreats. And one of the things she said she said it last year, and it just it has stuck with me. Because you talk about this increasingly rare experience of being able to see the stars 70 75% of children born today will never see the Milky Way because of light pollution. And you mentioned lights are good. We need lights. But I can't help but wonder with all of the different systems and just not even traditions like just things that oppress things that keep us small things that that keep us from leaning into that curiosity. I can't help but wonder if like lights are really just trying to keep us disconnected from this ancestral connection to the night sky. Because since time immemorial, we've used it for navigation and connection and traditions and stories. And it's just I You said you were taking the easy way out but Katie. I love that answer. And for for us to be able to host our programs here and to take people out to sunset rock and lay on the granite like we do everything you just said that you want to be. We take a nice walk at sunset. Like on our right is this forest that's been managed well and like prescribed burns had been happening. And on our left is like destruction and matchsticks and then we go lay on granite and we're getting super grounded and then we like watch the stars and we learn all about it. It's just the experiences that are possible here because of the work that you've done because of the work that conservancy does. Through the collaborations with organizations like ours, like that, that magic wand is real. And that experience is possible. And you can experience it like every Friday, Saturday, Sunday, during the summer season. Join us for the dark sky, night sky, whatever, night dark sky,

Katie Wightman 55:26

dark sky festival

Sydney Williams 55:27

dark sky festival, come on out, is there anything else on your heart or mind in relation to this conversation or outside of it, that you'd like to share with folks before we wrap it up?

Katie Wightman 55:35

um, I think just the National Parks are an amazing place. And they, gosh, they represent so much and, and they're not perfect places. And it's an it can be hard to navigate the national parks, but they are, you know, there's, there's really something for everyone here. And it is like, as we sit here in Wolverton, and are, are talking about all these things, I'm looking around and thinking about how lucky we are to just be here. Um, and I think that, gosh, sometimes it is as simple as just getting outside. And just going on a walk doesn't have to be hike, you can take the word hike out of it, you know, just go for a walk. And, and, you know, let that, you know, let that sun shine on you take a walk in the woods, or on the beach, or in the desert, or on the snow, or whatever it is, wherever it makes you, you know, to get out there and allow yourself that time. Just just to connect.

Sydney Williams 56:49

Well, I'd ask you where people can find you on the internet. But you've recently made the incredibly wise and honorable and frankly, enviable decision to remove yourself from social media. So y'all are just gonna have to figure it out. Maybe she'll be your nurse someday. But Katie, thank you so much for everything that you've made possible for us, oh, God, I'm gonna cry. It's not lost on me that I'm sitting at a place where literally all of my dreams have come true. And that it wouldn't have been possible without your gift of belief that this was a good idea. And for helping us get dates on the calendar before Daniel joined the team, so it was like this was happening. So there was no question as to whether or not we could continue. I'm just this. We had our first event last weekend. And I woke up on Friday, and I am a naturally pretty anxious person. But especially when it comes to things I care about, such as I want to do a good job. And after spending a week here before the event, I have never woken up with my written on an event day, with my nervous system so regulated. Like, I have never been so calm. And I usually like I've done this program, tons of times, I know what we're doing, like the back of my hand, I've lived it, I created it, I teach it. And still before every event I like write out a script for myself. Not that I'll ever use it. So I'm not gonna sit here and like, Okay, everybody, welcome to Wolverson service camp, and I'm just looking at a notebook and you'll never see my eyes. Like I I didn't do any of that for this one. And this place that I got to spend so much time in last summer in which was just like a fraction of the time we're gonna get to spend here this summer, gave me the capacity, bringing it all back around full circle to trust myself. And I didn't have to write out a whole script for this weekend. And it was by far one of the most impactful retreats we've ever hosted. So thank you for making that possible. Thank you.

Sydney Williams 58:46

And for anybody listening, find the Sequoia Parks Conservancy that Sequoia parks conservancy.org.

Katie Wightman 58:53

Yes,

Sydney Williams 58:53

yes. And they're on social media, give them a follow become a friend of the Sequoia Parks Conservancy to help fund the important work that they're doing in the park. If you're listening to this and you have time to sign up for a program wether that's this year next year whenever they host a bunch of different adventures with Hiking My Feelings and their own kinds of programs that they've created. Do all that or find your local your closest natural National Park and find their version of their Conservancy and nonprofit partner. I hope that this episode has been a breath of fresh air. Thank you so much for joining us for this week's dose of Wellness in the Wilderness. Until next time, take good care of yourself good care of each other dream big and be kind. We'll see you next time.

Announcer 59:38

Since 1984, Sawyer has existed to support your wildest adventures. Learn about their advanced insect repellents and family of technical lightweight water filters at sawyer.com. Ready to find your Wellness in the Wilderness? Look no further than Hiking My Feelings through a combination of community and self discovery. Our programs are designed to give you the space and support to connect life starts. If you're looking to figure out who you are underneath the stories you've been given, and are ready to redesign the map of where you're headed with actionable steps and opportunities to dream big, we're here to walk alongside you. Whether you're a seasoned adventurer enthusiast, or brand new to the healing power of nature. We've got your back. Visit hikingmyfeelings.org today to download our free trail thoughts worksheets, and learn more about Hiking My Feelings. Thanks for joining us on this week's show. We hope this episode has been a breath of fresh air for you and has inspired you to find your wellness in the wilderness. We will reconnect with nature and you again next week.